Киноклуб

[Rainfall]

По сравнению с шедевром сериала, фильм вышел весьма унылый. Ничего нового Линч не сказал, отсутствуют несколько важных персонажей (незабвенная Одри, например), посмотреть в теории можно, но только после сериала, ибо получится спойлер.
Unona, концовка совсем другая, ибо это приквел. Да и какой смысл вообще повторять такую концовку. И так уже 15 лет про нее спорят (хотя я скромно отношу себя к числу тех, кто хоть эту загадку Линча все-таки решил).

[Юнона]

Rainfall

И так уже 15 лет про нее спорят (хотя я скромно отношу себя к числу тех, кто хоть эту загадку Линча все-таки решил).

Поделись, пожалуйста! Очень интересно. Я давно сериал по телеку смотрела, уже к сожалению не во всех деталях помню. Но вот "culture shock" тогда точно не у одной меня был...

[Rainfall]

Unona
Несколько лет назад я участвовал в обширной, мною начатой, дискуссии на IMDb, целью которой была логичная интерпретация линчевской символики в Твин Пикс, а так же объяснение некоторых моментов относительно финального эпизода (который, конечно, более других сносит башню) (ничего, что я так официально?) Плодом этих астральных измышлений явился мой доклад-эссе на 4 печатные страницы, до сих пор занимающий почетное место в папке "Мои документы". К сожалению, на варяжском... переводить некогда. Так что выкладываю как есть, какие-то моменты могу пояснить более подробно. Разумеется - это спойлер, так что читать непосвященным воспрещается.

Upd. - даа, "Черный квадрат" отдыхает...

Спойлер

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******Warning! Grand spoilers!******

Attention! I don't recommend you to read all this unless you've seen the whole series.
What I am going to reveal here is my version of what was going in Twin Peaks (especially in the final episode where Lynch left many questions without answers but with several hints) based on analysis of many fan versions and my own thoughts. You may agree with this or not but it's all based only on facts that we have in the series. The key factor is certainly the last episode which puts everything (or at least most of things) on it's place. There exist hundreds of theories of what really happened in that last episode, but many of them are just bold guesses not based on any arguments. Of course I will include some guesses, too because Lynch didn't give all the keys in this riddle, but most of what I'm going to write is based on logic. Shall we start then.

1. What do Twin Peaks forests have to hide? What are the meanings of White and Black lodges?

Twin Peaks is certainly very weird place but this weirdness has explanation. The world we're living in is a place between two other worlds - world of virtue, love and peace and world of evil, hate and fear. White and Black lodges, which are hidden somewhere in Twin Peaks' woods symbolize the gates into these worlds. But you can’t enter White lodge without being in Black lodge which is some kind of probation (Lynch's view on purgatory maybe?) for those who get there.
Here’s a good quotation from one site: “The "Black physics" and "White physics" of the opposed universes make one a home for evil beings, the other a home for good beings. Our universe, between the opposites, is a middle ground where the opposing laws of physics mix and compete. The competition is particularly strong in Twin Peaks, which has a known gateway to the Black Universe and probably also has a gateway to the White Universe. In the Black laws of physics time probably still runs forwards, but the combination of space and time is different. There are probably more than 3 spatial dimensions, and time might behave partly as a spatial dimension. It may be possible to visit an earlier time by walking to a different location in this multi-dimensional space. Maybe time is nonlinear - distortions in either space or time could explain why voices sound strange to our perception. Laws of physics may be further distorted in a place such as the Black Lodge, at an interface between universes. There may be yet more mysteries beyond the Black Lodge”.

Windom Earle has been working in a secret military project called Blue Book which's primary task was to survey space. But Earle (obviously before he became FBI agent and Cooper's partner) found something not in the space but on Earth. He found these gates and since then it became his obsession. It was a cosmic fate that agent Cooper got to this place where he was destined to meet with his old rival.

2. Did Audrey Horn die in the bank? What happened to Andrew Packard and Pete Martell?

This question worries many people because Audrey was very special person and many people liked her. After that blast in Twin Peaks Bank everyone became really worried about her fate. After analyzing some materials (some people even made a map of that bank with marks!) I came to conclusion that chances of her death are minimal. Facts: a) blast was hard enough to blow away two windows and entrance door; b) we didn't see any fire bursting out of the windows; c) Audrey was chained to door which was about 15-20 meters from the epicenter of explosion and was partly blocked by wall and several columns. After analyzing this facts we can surely say that bomb didn't consist any C4-like materials because we didn't see any fire. Therefore, Audrey could die only because of blast wave. But if you know a little bit of physics, you should know that blast wave in closed space can be really destructive only if it meets massive objects on its way: in our case these objects were windows and door. It was the final obstacle (dead-end) on the wave's way where it got it's highest power. And smaller objects (including people) were just thrown away. The fact that Audrey was chained saved her life in this case. The worst damages she could get were shell-shock and few broken corners (because of the chain). So my answer - yes, Audrey got alive from this explosion. Which can't be said about Pete and especially Andrew. Andrew most likely died because he was standing right in front of the bomb and even the smallest fragments of any materials were deadly. Pete had a bit more chances because he was partly blocked by safe's door, but nobody can be sure that he made through it.

2. Did Ben Horne die?

Well, he obviously didn't. First of all, when he was hit by Donna's father in law, Ben fell on the floor and we could see him shacking a bit. Many people mistakenly treated this episode only as deadly convulsions. Of course it could be it, but it could also be a result of painful shock. Furthermore, in the end of the episode we can see Donna's father in talking to Truman and Cooper which means that he wasn't arrested (and there were plenty of witnesses at the time of his quarrel with Ben).

3. Did Leo Johnson die?

Leo most surely died, because he was too far from civilization, deep in the forest and a bunch of tarantulas over his head were not too promising. Poor Leo paid even more than full price for his previous doings.

4. What really happened in Black lodge and what's Cooper's fate from this moment?

Here we came to the most intriguing and scary moment. That's where guesses start. First of all, I must remind of three key phrases that we hear in the Black lodge. First, Laura Palmer (or Laura's spirit) says to Cooper: "We shall meet again in 25 years". Then Giant says: "Everything will repeat". And later Annie (Caroline) tells Cooper that "she is dead" (although Cooper knows she – Annie - isn't).
The key moment is Cooper's meeting with Windom Earle mano a mano. Windom says that he will let Annie live only if Cooper gives him his soul. Cooper says "Yes". Then BOB takes his word by saying that Earle is wrong and he can't ask for Cooper's soul, so instead of Dale’s BOB takes Earle's soul (to hell if you wish). Stop. Now we have to admit that although Windom Earle was very smart, he was insane maniac killer. That Black lodge dangled his dark side of the soul, but he never could understand the meaning of this place. And Cooper did understand everything.
When Cooper comes back to our world (with Annie alive) he's not really Cooper anymore (real Cooper stayed in the Black lodge). Now he's BOB's new body. "Everything will repeat again" - it surely means that someone will die in the future from the hands of Cooper (BOB). And this someone gotta be Annie. Because phrase "everything will repeat" means not only someone's death but also the repeat of the story with Caroline (it isn't coincidence that Annie looked like Caroline in Black lodge). The fact that Annie (Caroline) said to Cooper "I am dead" probably means that Cooper (BOB) will kill Annie like Windom Earle killed Caroline in Pittsburgh. But on the other hand “Everything will repeat again” could also mean that whole this situation in Black lodge will repeat in 25 years (sincerely last version sounds more decisively to me). Now let’s move to Laura's phrase "We will meet again in 25 years". At first glance it can only mean two things: that agent Cooper will die in 25 years or that BOB will leave his body by that time. But the meaning of this phrase is much deeper. The point is that conjunction between Saturn and Jupiter happens approx. every 20-25 years (and it’s the only time when gates to Black lodge are open) so it’s a hint to something. Maybe it’s a hint that Cooper will be saved during the next dance of Jupiter and Saturn or that he will enter Black lodge again to free himself from BOB etc etc. Do you remember Coop’s dream somewhere in the middle of the series where he’s old? Well, this is a link between words and reality – something will surely happen in 25 years and if to remember that Cooper looked normal in that dream there’s optimistic hope that everything will end good.
Cooper’s soul doesn’t go to hell like Windom Earle’s. It obviously stays in the Black lodge and waits for saving (or for moving to White lodge). Remember the message sent to major Briggs through Sarah Palmer? Yeah, this is it. We've known for some time that in order to reach the White Lodge, one must first travel through the Black Lodge and in the process meet and overcome one's doppelganger. Coop is on the way there. Now all he has to do is overcome his evil copy, and he'll be in. But his evil copy is already in the real world so he has to wait until he meets it again (or until this evil side is defeated by someone in the our world).
Now to what seemed somewhat strange. Okay, Lynch is a great fatalist and none of his movies end good. Okay, he decided to kill some characters. But one thing seems just unreal (and not only to me but to many people): this thing is the fact that Cooper said "Yes" when he'd been asked for his soul. Agent Dale Cooper is not only smart but also religious in many senses and clear-sighted person. He knew everything about Black lodge (if he didn't know something, he could feel it with his 6th sense). So there was no way he could say "Yes", and even love couldn't make him change his mind. He was too strong for this. But… on the other hand it was test for love and Cooper passed it by giving all he got for Annie. Besides Annie did escape from meeting her own doppelganger (evil copy) in the Black Lodge. Maybe she now possesses the strength and power to go back in and free Coop. This could also count as a positive moment in this whole dark ending.

4. Who killed Laura Palmer?



P.S. Twin Peaks is surely one of the greatest series (if not the best) shown on TV and one of the greatest mystifications made by great mystificator. Twin Peaks with last episode and without it are two bit different things, because this final gives series much deeper philosophical meaning and on the other hand spoils the feel-good mood from the previous episodes. Anyway, David Lynch made many people think about it and think about the future of the characters but never gave answers himself because he’s a riddle himself and I’m not sure that even he knows all answers to his own questions. The whole series can be appraised as genius and embarrassment at once.

[Юнона]

Rainfall
Я испугалась, что у меня с монитором что-то не так Надгробный памятник Твин Пиксу (просила ведь Тедварда цвет поменять)
Спасибо. Правда ближе к концу первого абзаца пришлось полезть за словарем древне-варяжского...У меня с ним самоучибельные отношения, времени нет освоить как следует . Так что если к выходным не переведу до конца, спрошу все-таки на российско-федеративном. Не обязательно подробно и с доказательствами, можно самое главное

[Мавка]

Прочитала и ужаснулась: Бедный ребенок! (Это к тому времени, когда дитем был).http://www.strana.ru/doc.html?id=92383&cid=1

[Деметра]

Чего ж ему 105-ю не дали-то?..

[Деметра]

Джуно.
Каждая женщина изредка, да воскликнет: ах, где же вы, настоящие мужчины? Действительно, трудно не воскликнуть это, если современные фильмы буквально убеждают в отсутствии оных. Из пяти просмотренных мной фильмов за этот месяц четыре показывали женщин как сильных доминирующих натур, мужчин же - как застенчивых безынициативных мямлей. Не то, чтобы изображённые женщины, которым отводится лучшая роль, мне не нравились (я всё-таки сама женщина), но подобная дискриминация мужчин всё же задевает.
В центре фильма «Джуно» две пары. Одна – это беременная школьница и её растяпа-приятель, другая – страстно жаждущая детей бесплодная женщина с инфантильным мужем. Джуно, та самая школьница, на редкость рассудительный подросток (скажите, вы встречали таких?). Узнав о беременности, она невозмутимо сообщает об этом родителям и бой-френду и готовится рожать, чтобы отдать ребёнка приёмным родителям. Возможно, я не очень хорошо знаю психологию подростков, но разве может 16-летняя девушка спокойно отнестись к такому событию и почти равнодушно ждать разрешения от бремени?
Впрочем, это не так важно, потому что фильм получился очень хороший. Диалоги не то, чтобы блещут остроумием, но отнюдь не плохи и местами даже забавны. Актёрская игра на среднем уровне, хотя героиня играет просто замечательно. Частично фильм держится на ней. И напоследок хочется отметить замечательную музыку. Когда закончился фильм, все зрители сидели и слушали В общем, фильм стоит посмотреть, если вы любите добротное, ладно скроенное и просто интересное кино.

[Sveta]

Если честно, зависит от подростка.
А ты какие собственно жанры смотриш?
например в боевиках- мужчины все такие мужественные- мужественные.

[Деметра]

Sveta

например в боевиках- мужчины все такие мужественные- мужественные.

Да, где таких только берут? Просто я заметила тенденцию, что женщин стали показывать более мужественными, в лучшем смысле этого слова, доминирующими над мужчинами.

[А.М.]

но Кармен Электра всё равно никогда не сыграет Джона Рэмбо!

[Юнона]

Просто я заметила тенденцию, что женщин стали показывать более мужественными, в лучшем смысле этого слова, доминирующими над мужчинами.

Так может это отражение реальных жизненных процессов? Как говорится, что есть, то и снимают...

[Rainfall]

Деметра
"В лучшем смысле" - это относится к мужественности или к доминированию? А вообще это все с Деми Мур пошло... если раньше это носило непостоянный характер, то теперь она все время под мужика косит.

[Нука Цыц]

Вот так напоказывают гламурненьких красавчегов, а у меня сын растет.

[А.М.]

пусть растёт...

[Деметра]

Unona

Так может это отражение реальных жизненных процессов? Как говорится, что есть, то и снимают...

Думаете? Мне кажется, что в реальной жизни всё не так запущено. Ведь все давно знают, что женщины отнюдь не слабые существа, что они умеют справляться с трудностями ничуть не хуже мужчин, просто не выставляют это напоказ, и по-прежнему умеют проявлять слабость, нежность, ласку, умеют заставить мужчину почувствовать себя сильным. В кино же всё совсем не так. Взять хотя бы недавно просмотренный мной «Приют». Фильм испанский, и, казалось бы, масштабы феминизма не должны были зайти далеко. Куда там… Муж героини служит фоном для неё самой…

Rainfall

"В лучшем смысле" - это относится к мужественности или к доминированию?

К мужественности, конечно. Я хотела сказать, что женщины не обзавелись усами и прочим, а взвалили на себя (причём с явным удовольствием) проблемы, которые ранее лежали на плечах мужчин.

Нука Цыц

Вот так напоказывают гламурненьких красавчегов, а у меня сын растет.

Мальчикам такие фильмы смотреть вообще противопоказано… Хотя, может, Юнона права, и это закономерный процесс?